Why I Am A Creationist 3


Inevitably, someone accuses me of being a Creationist simply because I was raised that way. If I’d been born into the Muslim world, I’d be a Muslim, they say. If I’d been born into one of USAmerica’s Coastal Ignorance belts, I’d be a godless liberal. Et cetera ad nauseam.

The problem with this analogy is that it’s self-refuting. If we’re all simply the product of social conditioning, then the Darwinist is likewise a product of the culture less than reason. If the Darwinist had been born to a pragmatic family in the Bible Belt, he would have been a Creationist, right? And he’d never have any choice in the matter because reason is no match for social conditioning, right? No, I don’t buy it either, for the excellent reason that it’s not true.

My case is the perfect example.

I grew up in church. Church is not God ~ and thank God for that!

Like a lot of kids who grew up in church, I “got saved” many times. I believe I was sincere each & every time. I also think that it was a mark of my own insecurity & the awareness of growing up that led me to seek salvation anew, when it was already mine.

I got baptized even more than that. Most of these immersions, admittedly, had something to do with the possibility of relief from the summer heat and with the attention gained by such dunkings, but a few were serious. I recall one particular dunking in the winter that was either very serious or just not well thought out. In any case, wise to our possible intentions, those adults administering the baptisms took to a habit of justifying our deed by holding us down until we REALLY repented!

While all of these events tend to muddle together into one distorted childhood memory, I do clearly recall the last time I got saved as a child. My family lived in a trailer somewhere in WV. I couldn’t sleep that night, because I just kept thinking, “If I die before I wake… Is that a joke?!?” Every time I closed my eyes, an implacable force both pressed down upon me and made me wieghtless all at once. It felt as if I were being dragged off into the void of Deep space, while someone tried to crush me out of existence. I was afraid that if I died that very night that this would be my fate! My mother assured me that this was only a nightmare, for there were only two possible post-mortem destinations: Heaven (which sounded pleasant enough) and Hell. Yes, Hell. Not a metaphor. Not a bad acid trip. A real place of torment and agony, full of flames and sinners, where you never, ever wake up! Given the options, I chose the less painful one. (Fire insurance anyone?)

At the age of 16, I began going to a Christian school. My father had felt the call to preach that year and had decided that his children should receive better Christian instruction than we’d received previously. We’d always been VERY active in church. I’d been singing in church since I was four. We’d helped with tent revivals and the like. My extended family is jam-packed with gospel singers and preachers. I digress. Yet Dad didn’t feel a Christian education by proxy was adequate. He also wanted us brought up with a Biblical rather than Darwinian worldview. My public school science teachers had openly mocked my parents’ Biblicist views on Genesis when I brought it up in class [so much for a student’s rights to voice his religious views and for scientific freedom of inquiry!].

Being in a Christian school doesn’t automatically guarantee you’ll be a SUPER CHRISTIAN, even if it’s a fundamentalist Christian school. It doesn’t even mean that you’re a Christian. (Marilyn Manson went to a Christian school.) I was saved, but many of my peers thought the whole thing was a joke.

I learned about such faith giants as DL Moody and George Meuller. I learned about Jim Elliot, and other missionaries and martyrs, who paid the ultimate price for their salvation. I memorized entire chunks of the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation. I discovered not only my Biblical roots, but also the rest of my spiritual and historical heritage. I felt a sense of pride to know that I was a Christian. This is my heritage! This is what I believe! This is why I believe it! While at Christian school, at the age of 16, I felt the call to preach God’s Word.

I’ve related all fo this to make a point. If I had remained a Creationist from that day forth, an argument for belief due to social conditioning could potentially be made. I was deep into fundamental Bible-believing Creationist culture. This is full disclosure.

So is the rest of the tale…

While part of my reasons for abandoning my faith had much to do with my disillusionment with the church, Darwinism was the wedge that eventually shattered that faith. After a couple years of formal Christian education, my parents relented to my younger brothers’ pleas to go back to public school. In high school, Darwinism pervaded nearly everything they taught us. It was clearly indoctrination. My problem is that I wanted to be thought of as smart. After my first few skirmishes with condescending pro-Darwin teachers, I kept my mouth shut. Then in the absence of an alternative or even a critical look at some of Darwinism’s flaws, I began to slowly but surely slide into a belief that perhaps God could have used evolution [since all of the authority figures in my life seemed so convinced of evolution as a fact!].

I didn’t know it at the time, but the things I found so convincing back then were all mostly lies and propaganda. Pictures of peppered moths [glued] on tree bark. Haeckle’s famously fudged embryo drawings. The Tree of Life drawing which never once hinted about its notoroiusly missing links; why didn’t someone tell me it was mostly speculation? The geological age strata cutaway chart showing the ages [“a gazillion billion years ago”] and a neat march of macroevolution from microbes to man laid out in the fossil record. Colorful pictures illustrating the mythological evolution of the horse from a hyrax-like critter. [EDIT: To state that Hyracotherium is a hyrax-like creature is a bit misleading. I am not implying that it is a hyrax, though Richard Owens at first thought so when he named it. Also, the phrase “mythological evolution” needs clarification. New mathematical models suggest that the members famously included in the horse series may be members of the same kind, much as Shetland ponies, zebras and Clydesdales are all contemporary members of the same horse kind. Unfortunately, this would indicate that the horse series is only an example of rapid speciation or microevolution, though it is erroneously touted as evidence of microbes to man macroevolution. It should be noted that this erroneous conclusion is based upon the fact that the horse kind no longer includes members with more than one toe, but I fear they overstate their case.] That over-used Ascent of Man chart showing a monkey at one end, a human at the other and a bunch of ape-men which never existed in the middle. The now-disproven vestigial organs canard. I was told in no uncertain terms that Darwinism [macroevolution, though it was never termed as anything but evolution] was a fact [as proven by… microevolution!?? Wait a minute! That’s a bait-and-switch!] of science and science was how we’d gotten technology like video games, microwave ovens and cable. This equivocation of macroevolution with microevolution [it was always just called “evolution”], [the amalgamated] evolution with science and science with progress and intelligence came with a not-so-subtle equivocation of the Genesis Record with myth or superstition. Science [and the amalgam evolution concept] was juxtaposed with religion [as pre-scientific and superstitious explanations of the world]. Of course, I didn’t realize I was being indoctrinated to buy this scientific evolution versus Biblical myth false dichotomy. But eventually it began to have an affect on my beliefs.  

At first, I satisfied myself with some sort of uneasy compromise between the two origins worldviews. I didn’t bother asking deep questions.  What I hadn’t considered was that, like Adam and Eve, I was listening to Satan’s question, “Has God really said?” I’d decided that one part of the Bible wasn’t true based on the wisdom of men, most of whom were dead.  That led me to question whether other parts of the Bible were true. It led me to toss out much of Genesis, most of early Israel’s Biblical history and Jonah’s fish story. I carefully kept away from criticizing the Gospels, just in case. But I began equating the Bible and religion and even God as increasingly irrelevant to modern life [being pre-scientific explanations of the world], to my life. It didn’t help that I’d come out of fundamentalist subculture who’s increasing hostility to the culture, vividly undeniable hypocrisy [Baker, Swaggart, TBN in general], isolationism and crazy rule-mongering led me to see the church as increasingly irrelevant as well! 

I should’ve kept my eyes on God.

Instead, I dropped out. Unwilling to hurt my parents’ feelings, I continued to go to church for a while, to sing, and oh-so-rarely to preach, but the fire was gone. By the time I graduated high school, I had dropped out completely.

I gloried in my ability to “think for myself”, and couldn’t stomache the carbon copy cool conformity of Christian society. I also couldn’t stand my own hypocrisy when I was there, white-washed on the outside, but hollow and rotting on the inside.

Finally, I turned my back on God. How could I trust the Bible if it was so full of holes? I accepted some sort of fuzzy notion about God and would readily identify that God as Jesus if pressed, but He wasn’t really MY God. I became a back-sliding stereotype. I began smoking, cussing, and drinking. I grew my hair out. I threw wild parties. I used God’s name as a swearword every chance I got. I experimented with the occult, particularly runes. I loved the works of H.P. Lovecraft & similar authors. I even perverted my God-given drawing & writing talents, creating morbidly occult fiction & often demonic artwork for band fliers and mere personal amusement. I was the meanest, most spiteful, most cynical person I’ve even known. Even though I was cocky & arrogant in public, I often suffered horrible depression & the aforementioned rage in private. I tried not to let any hint of my true emotions slip through my armor, but I was hurting horribly inside.

I was at my worst when I was the lead vocalist/songwriter for a hardcore/rapcore band called Midian, which I more or less founded. Certainly, it wouldn’t have survived without me, for I wrote almost all of the lyrics (we wrote nearly 100 songs in our brief year & a half of existence; less than 10 of these songs were not written by me), made all of the contacts, promoted the band via fliers, radio, and various publications, booked our concerts, and put together multi-band concerts. Midian was my choice for the band’s name, which is perhaps ironic, since this was my time “on the backside of the desert”. Later, we briefly changed the name to Hate, I Preach. We did covers of Marilyn Manson, Korn, Rage Against the Machine, & others of our genré, but 95% of our shows were comprised of originals, some of which made those cover tunes seem tame by comparison. Aside from the previously mentioned bands, our influences & idols also included Metallica, Iron Maiden, The Doors, Cypress Hill, The Misfits (later Danzig), Megadeth, Faith No More, & Type O Negative. 

 
 
 
 
 

 

Anyway I simply wanted to give you a glimpse of who I was for a decade. Some claim that once you get saved, you’re always saved ~ that you can never lose your salvation no matter what you do. I seriously believe that had I died during that time, I would have went straight to Hell. Do not Pass Go. Do Not Collect $100. I know that now. I knew it then. In any case, I was definitely no longer a Creationist. Social conditioning via scholastic indoctrination had the intended effect. This, by the way, is why we need to teach the controversy in public schools.

It took a bit of old-fashioned EXTORTION to get me back into church. I was poor. I had no food. I hadn’t eaten in several days. Since I didn’t have a job, it didn’t look like there was gonna be any food in my future either. They say that sin is fun for a season. My season apparently was up. God had had enough of my running.

Mom made me an offer I couldn’t refuse. She said, “Son, you know the church I go to has a FOOD pantry. If you come to church, we’ll fix you up couple bags of groceries. But if you don’t… well, it’s your decision!” she finished cheerily. Talk about an incentive to change!

So I went to church.

But I didn’t make it easy on them…

Yet to my shock and surprise, they actually listened to my gripes and accusations about the Church & its Christians. No one judged me. No one wrote me off as hopeless or “too far gone”. They treated me like a person ~ not a no-good, dirty, rotten sinner. Nor did they treat me in that patronzing “I-told-you-so” manner that is usually reserved for backsliders. In fact, a few became good friends of mine before I started attending regularly. Needless to say, I’m now VERY big on “friendship evangelism.”

A year after my first coerced visit, I re-dedicated my life to God on March 23, 1997. The preacher talked about the “Blood Covenant” we make with God upon salvation, as if the Invitation on Heaven’s Door reads: “Whosoever Will may Come” but upon entering we find that the other side of the sign reads: “Foreordained from the Foundation of the World!” I somehow knew that this was my last chance. I’m not a fool. I went to the altar crying (something I hadn’t done in years) and got up preaching (I had to let it all out) and ultimately changed.

Now I had a problem. I had come back to Christendom based on the for evidence of Jesus’ resurrection, but I still had a fuzzy notion of Biblical authority. How could I trust it fro salvation but not for what it said about why I needed to be saved in the first place, that we have all sinned in Adam? As Jesus asked Nicodemus, How could I trust him concerning heavenly things if I couldn’t hear him on what he said about earthly things?

So I began re-examining Genesis. Most of my blogsite is a written exploration of my conclusions. The issue of origins isn’t one of faith versus reason, but rather which reasonable faith [Darwinism or Creationism] is ore reasonable given our shared pool of data and our common capacity from reason.

You see, I’m a thinker. At long last. I thought I knew how to think for myself when I reject the social conditioning of my religious childhood for Darwinism, but I really just fell prey to the more immersive [and therefor more comprehensive and conditionally compelling] social conditioning of scholastic indoctrination in public schools. I didn’t learn to think for myself by believing what they told me; I learned independent thought by daring to critique and question what I’d been told [an art never taught in public school] and making my own decisions. The Bible’s account simply better fits the facts of the observable world.

–Sirius Knott

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12 Comments Add yours

  1. cindyinsd says:

    Great story, Tony!

    I really enjoyed reading it. I think God protected me from evolution (though I fell away later, for other reasons). My parents believed in evolution and thought it odd that I never did. They didn’t see it as a contradiction to Christianity–they just hadn’t thought it through. I confess that some of the things “they” told us troubled me, but I knew somehow that either evolution was true or Jesus was true, and I knew Jesus was true–I wasn’t so sure about those drawings/woodcuts of embryos. I’ve always been fond of drawing, and I couldn’t understand how a drawing, so easily altered to whatever the artist might choose, would convince anyone. Like I said, God was protecting me.

    It’s amazing to see a genuine example of the “benefits” of convincing kids there is no God but evolution and Darwin is its prophet. Great boon to society, evolution.

    God bless, and He obviously has . . .

    Cindy

  2. W. Holler says:

    Sirius,

    Thank you so much for sharing your story; it is a great inspiration to a fellow backslider. I have spent the majority of my life living the turn style, life I seek God then turn away. Recently I finally hit bottom and guess what God was there when no one else was. I have spent the last several months with a new understanding of God one that is about a relationship rather then religion I feel anew. I have discovered that my relationship gives me purpose for with out it we live and then we die that’s it. I have an item of thought that I would like to express to those believe there is no God. “You had better hope your right,” if you are wrong, you are in serious trouble. Again, thank you so much for sharing your story it gives hope all who read it even those who refuse to accept it.

    -W. Holler

  3. Stian says:

    Do you really not see the connection between environment and belief? If you were never exposed to christianity, would you be a Christian?

    It seems the need for superstitious beliefs is highest in non-developed countries and lowest in secular societies with a high living standard. I’m Scandinavian myself, and religion is on retreat. I live in a society where real poverty is nearly non-existent and health care is provided by the state. The need for a God is just not there for most people. People tend to turn to God when things are not going well for them, like you when you hadn’t eaten in a few days.

    A society where free speech and democracy are valued also seems to be less superstitious.

    The only Christian people I know are those who grew up in a fundamentalist home.

  4. Stian wrote:

    It seems the need for superstitious beliefs is highest in non-developed countries and lowest in secular societies with a high living standard. I’m Scandinavian myself, and religion is on retreat. I live in a society where real poverty is nearly non-existent and health care is provided by the state. The need for a God is just not there for most people. People tend to turn to God when things are not going well for them, like you when you hadn’t eaten in a few days.

    Things are going quite well for me. Yet, I turn to Christianity, because I believe in the truth of Christ’s crucifixion and resurrection. The only atheists I know had relationship problems with their fathers, and thus project their feelings towards their earthly father on to the eternal. So, do you really want to ascribe psychological reasons to folks who believe in God? If so, how did you get along with your father?

  5. Dave says:

    You have an extra ‘l’ in the the word ‘fell’ in the last paragraph.

    1. Thank you. I’ve corrected it.

  6. Hi Tony, I ran across your site and read your testimony. Thanks for sharing. It helped me to understand your experiences and attachments. In fact I wrote to a friend,

    “I was taken, just now, with Rev Tony Breeden’s testimony in three parts, Why I Am a Creationist, especially the last part. His brother begged to attend a secular high school, and both of them got to go. Tony got into heavy metal of the dark sort, and read some H.P. Lovecraft and started a band, though what he recalls as his earliest shock at high school was how ‘Darwinism pervaded nearly everything they taught us.’ Though I suppose he defines ‘Darwinism’ broad enough to include any sort of ‘multiculturalism,’ and a host of other ideas not necessarily connected solely with ‘Darwinism.’ He also admits he didn’t have any answers to questions about the evidence for evolution, nor to questions about the Bible. Apparently his previous years of home schooling had not prepared him to fully engage this new world that opened before him in high school. So he became a mocker, and it sounds like he wanted to be the next Marilyn Manson. Can you imagine, being raised fundamentalist, homeschooled, and then you enter a secular high school at a time when your hormones are raging, and you’re hit with so much new input — meeting lots of people your own age — as well as teachers who are not your parents. I imagine his head nearly twisted off. He probably made lots of new friends, heard new music, and realized he was also free to start asking questions.

    “But when his band career didn’t pan out (he said he’d fallen away for about 10 years during which he sought to make the band his career) but was left starving, and his folks invited him back to church where he made new friends there, and also was fed by the church’s pantry. He writes that after he returned to church “to my shock and surprise, they actually listened to my gripes and accusations about the Church & its Christians. No one judged me. No one wrote me off as hopeless or ‘too far gone’.. They treated me like a person ~ not a no-good, dirty, rotten sinner. Nor did they treat me in that patronzing ‘I-told-you-so’ manner that is usually reserved for backsliders. In fact, a few became good friends of mine before I started attending regularly. Needless to say, I’m now VERY big on “friendship evangelism.”

    “Reading that helped me to understand him. His experiences and attachments. It also made me wonder how someone like me, who underwent a sort of reverse transformation, could find some common ground we could both discuss. Though admittedly I never was into heavy dark metal, nor into Lovecraft much, though I’ve read a little. I enjoyed reading Woody Allen’s short funny stories, as well as some Twain, Voltaire and Ingersoll more than Lovecraft. And I majored in biology in college with the dream of someday becoming a creation evangelist like Duane T. Gish (which betrays which generation I came out of, prior to Tony’s. But I wound up reading responses to young-earth creationist arguments, and later collected first person testimonies of people who left fundamentalistic Christianity to either become more moderate, liberal, join more inclusivistic religions, or become agnostics or atheists.”

    1. Edward Babinski,

      You have misinformed your friend on one point: I was never home schooled. During my childhood, I attended no less than 16 different schools (some of them more than once) in several different states. We moved a lot. Three of those schools were Christian schools but all the rest were public, so when I left Belpre Christian Academy I wasn’t quite the unsocialized newb you’ve painted me out to be. If you got that impression from my article, I apologize for misleading you. (It should be said that homeschooling isn’t quite the same thing as, say, being Amish; the idea that homeschoolers are not socialized is a demonstrable myth, and in fact many are better socialized than their public school counterparts.)

      In any case, I am saddened that you have abandoned the faith. Agnosticism, from a Biblical point of view, might as well be atheism, for we are reminded by the author of Hebrews that without faith it is impossible to please God, for he who comes to God must believe that He is [so no atheism allowed] AND that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him [ie, a God personally involved in His creation, so agnosticism and deism are equally out]. You of course know this, so I am merely reminding my readers on this point.

      Like you, I have read the arguments against Biblical [Young earth] Creationism, but I have not found them satisfying. Too often, they beg the question or speculate well beyond the evidence. Storytelling has taken the place of honest science. I mean, how often do you find men who are as honest as T H Huxley [“Darwin’s Bulldog”], who conceded that he had no problem with the idea that everything sprang from nothing over the course of 6 days at the volition of a Deity, if such a Deity existed. (He of course did not believe such a Deity existed.) When I consider the uniformity of nature, the existence of logic, morality and a host of other components of our reality, I am overwhelmed by how much better a fit the Biblical Creation & Catastrophism model is over the microbes-to-man evolution model. And God’s revealed Word [which I unapologetically hold as my ultimate authority, just as you hold the current consensus of fallible men to be yours], notes that the evidence for God and moral law are clearly evident in nature and in our consciences, respectively [Romans 1 & 2], so that anyone denying the existence of God is guilty of exchanging the truth for a lie, turning to fables and suppressing the truth in unrighteousness. Or credulously accepting the consensus of men who are emnity with God over His revealed Word.

      As for these de-conversion testimonies, well, I have to point out that the Bible comments on such apostasty. I will spare you the sermon, but I should like to remind you that Paul commented on such unbelief:

      “For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar.” Romans 3:3-4a

      -revTony

  7. Anonymous says:

    Tony, Thanks for the reply. My apologies for thinking you were homeschooled. Thanks for explaining that you switched back and forth b/w public and private many times. I think that better explains your exposure to metal music, H.P. Lovecraft, and maybe even your gregarious nature, which would have been a tad more difficult to explain if you indeed had been home schooled till high school. I also appreciate the mention of your sadness for me if only because it’s an honest heartfelt reaction from your perspective. And for my part I think I understand where you are coming from, the arguments, the quotations from the Bible, feeling like you have something solid to stand on when speaking with, or preaching to, others. All other ground is sinking sand in your opinion. I think such questions are more complex and multi-faceted, from philosophical arguments to theological, geological and biological ones. There are also whole series of books (by three Evangelical publishing houses) in which Christians debate their different perspectives and interpretations of the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, with other Christians. If you visit amazon and type in “Three Views on” “Four Views on” or, “Five Views on,” you will run across such works (Zondervan, Baker, and a third publisher are producing such works). Christians have been debunking each other’s interpretations of the Bible for far longer than anyone else has, right up to our own day. I’m curious whether you believe there is definitive evidence that the geological record has been refuted by some “out of place” discovery. The stance at AiG and ICR has been to back away from citing the Paluxy “man” prints as such evidence, though some YECs like Baugh and Hovind still cling to such claims.

    1. Edward,

      How many homeschoolers have you met? I cannot help but restate that the idea that homeschoolers aren’t socialized, that they are essentially kept away indoors, is, well, an urban myth.

      In any case, I do feel I’m on solid ground by following apostolic orthodoxy [the faith once delivered of the apostles]. It doesn’t bother me in the least [where my faith is concerned] that there are differing opinions on the Bible. Jesus, Peter, Paul, etc., warned that there would be false teachers and damnable heresies. From the beginning of the Church, we’ve had to refute false teachings and erroneous interpretations of Scripture. Yet all of the half-cooked, burnt-edged, egg shell-ridden omelettes in the world do not negate the recipe for the perfect omelette – it simply demonstrates that we ought to follow the recipe instead of doing what we think best! From the beginning, Satan has used a standard bag of tricks: doubting God’s Word (“Did God really say…?”), getting us to add, subtract, or twist God’s Word (note how Eve added to God’s Word by saying God had commanded them not to even touch the Tree, when He had only forbidden them to eat of it), denying God’s Word (you shall not surely die), and casting God as the bad guy (He knows you’ll be wise like Him when you eat it. He’s lying to you. How selfish…).

      You ought to be made aware of a glaring fact regarding myself. I underwent your deconversion process, yet I came back. I came back skeptical and rather hostile on many points. When my wife asked me over a decade ago what I thought about evolution, I answered, “I suppose God could have used evolution.” I now obviously do not suppose that at all! You see, I had a strong negative reaction to hyperfundamentalism… and I threw the baby out with the bathwater. In the process of my prodigal return, I confronted all of these various opinions and objections. I even held some of them myself! And I came back because God’s Word is historically, geographically, and [if one takes fulfilled prophecy and the Resurrection into account] even supernaturally accurate. Where I don’t yet have answers, I give God the benefit of the doubt.

      Regarding your latter question: The microbes-to-man evolution model is a faith commitment. Any such fossil anachronisms would be explained away within the confines of that model, as I note in a post called: Dinosaurs and Bunny Rabbits, or Why the Speculative Nature of Darwinism Makes It Unfalsifiable. In other words, the point is moot because evolutionists would always explain it away with a helpful escape mechanism. For example, when we find a dinosaur buried with shark fossils (we have), the evolutionists say that the animal died and was swept out to sea. I rather think the same thing, to a point, but I think it occured during the Noachian Flood and they think it might have been a tsunami or somesuch. The point is: they will never concede to the creationist model simply because they have a like faith commitment to the evolution model. I consider the Paluxey tracks dubious, though possibly authentic and afterwards vandalized; personally, I don’t use them as evidence based on their dubious nature.

      -revTony

  8. therivernilejordan says:

    I can’t resist responding to Stian’s points (I feel naughty for responding to comments made years ago – but who knows? Someone might benefit…)

    “It seems the need for superstitious…”

    I feel compelled at this point to mention that though all superstitious people are supernaturalists, not all supernaturalists are superstitious people. Christians are commanded to be supernaturalists, but they are also commanded to Not be superstitious. Supernaturalism is a choice to be aware that there is more to “nature” than just nature; superstition is backwards and borne of ignorance. Lumping these things together is an act of willful ignorance.

    “…beliefs is highest in non-developed countries and lowest in secular societies with a high living standard. I’m Scandinavian myself, and religion is on retreat. I live in a society where real poverty is nearly non-existent and health care is provided by the state. The need for a God is just not there for most people. People tend to turn to God when things are not going well for them, like you when you hadn’t eaten in a few days.”

    Isn’t it true that suicide rates are highest in first-world countries?

    Think about it.

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